<Why must i cry>

As quoted by wallstrom2
Well Quh as I said if we would remove the sunday as we might be able to, since I think a lot of people would be more flexible to join 3 days of raiding instead of 4, and since the sunday is the raid where you atm get the most dkp I think people feel kinda forced to join that raid. I myself do feel forced at least. I dont know this for sure ofcourse, if the sunday raid would make people available to maintain a better attendancey, but it might.....

I know 100% what you mean, and i can see how 3 days is less than 4 days, but we want as many days as possible and we still need a bridge into mythic until we can "carry"/"boost"/"bring new raiders" in mythic (which we'll soon be able to). We would want 4 days mythic for sure. But we sacrifice 1 mythic day instead of making it 5 raid days (4 mythic + 1 bridge hc) we make it 4 days (3 mythic + 1 bridge hc). The 1 day hc raid will only work if we have core raiders, otherwise we'd need 2 days hc.

To close this bridge we would need to implement a rotation into the guild roster, where for example every raider will stay out of guild raiding every 4th week. I think that would be horrible for many, so i personally prefer to have "reserves" being integrated into our guild raiding team by doing the bridge heroics.
                        

As quoted by Storme
I don't mind having less DKP if I am allowed to spend sunday nights not raiding. as long as gear doent go to people that dont progress with us in mythic (not me, I don't really care if I get gear or not).

All gear is going to raiders. We cannot know beforehand who will be a good mythic raider in the end. People who are brought into mythic are the ones who we believe should get a chance to see if they are capable. Attendance is very important. If someone has been reserve to mythic for many nights i really like to reward them to bring them into a fresh mythic for some bosses to get some loot, since they have spent their time being available to raiding without getting anything at all.
                        

DKP:

In my opinion DKP is one of the best way of distributing loot BUT!!! 
That is on the base of people all started at the same time or atleast early into the system.

For instance, if we recruit a new guy with every intention of joining regularly he would have to compete with his mere 20dkp against my 1500 or whatever, in general this would mean i would get whatever item i want just because i raided early on but not necessarily raid as frequent as the new guy.

Another downside is the time 
which i am personally fine with since we got trash to clear anyway, but i can't see how changing the loot system to egpg or loot council would help on that matter. Previously i raided with a hardcore guild which used a mixture of dkp and loot council which gave the officers and core raiders a huge advantage gearwise since they would get prio on certain loot 

(can't remember all the specifics but think it was smth like "dkp usage was officers could bid x3 of their dkp, core ppl x2, new recruitet ppl could only spend 1x their dkp")

Beside that we had our class masters which evaluated which people that bid had the biggest advantage of the item.
This did also take quite a while... :-) FYI i do not recommend using this method.

LOOT COUNCIL:

On my opinion in the matter of changing to loot council itself i dont believe this would work unless we set a prio for core raiders and up (that could make a problem recruiting new people ofc but if they can't go a week or two without loot then i dont see why we would want them on our team)

The reason i think we would have to set the prio is because as mentioned by another the loot council would i theory have to award the gear to the guy which would benefit the team the most. 
BUT as we all know only a few of all the recruited people actually stay to become core raiders.

EGPG:

I dont know much about Egpg, this seems like a advanced edtion of "Need before greed" or even "Group Loot" it would seem to be the fastest way of distributing the loot but i don't see how this method is any more fair to everyone than the other methods.

Conclusion:

My conclusion would be that loot council would be the right choise if we setup certain rules before applying the system. 
But i would not suggest changing to the system until next raid is released which is in Legion.
This is because all our time building up dkp for current system would be wasted.

Note that this is my Opinion not the general conclusion about the subject
                        

Thank's xeno for sharing your opinions and excperience with loot systems. I personally would like Loot Council too! But making it easier to keep a bigger pool of raiders are not accounted for here. We are USING the dkp system to achieve something else more important than loot; attendance! What are your opinions on the issue about keeping the other raiders involved in raiding, those who cannot get a mythic spot because of the 20 player cap?
                        

In regards to that i think our sunday raid is the optimal day for those people to raid along with whoever decides to attend sunday raid, the good thing about hc run is that it is flexible, so in my opinion we should make sunday a new people + alt gearing day and remove the dkp from this run.
 
(ofc people would still have to meet certain requirements to join no matter if they are new or old raiders) 

Not only would this benefit us by gearing the new people but also give our regular raiders some freedom to chose wether to gear a alt (which helps the core team if fx. one of our maintanks won't be able to attend on a core run for whatever reason)
OR to take a day off with their girl or family or whatever.
                        

This would make it very slow and we would have to start over at normal, we would maybe be able to do 6 bosses with an alt run in heroic together with bringing new people if no mains show up. Not even I would bring my main if i got nothing for it if we are only killing 6 bosses and things are going very slow.

Remember that we tried this back in both foundry and highmaul. It just didnt work. Again, the only reason we implemented DKP was to solve this very problem. People just don't enjoy helping people. But people do enjoy to get mythic loot, so if you want mythic loot come help out on heroic was the our solution. Regarding alts we are doing this on some spots, but we cannot allow everyone to do it, that just doesn't work, i hope everyone saw for themselves last sunday.
                        

I agree this won't work for sure but that's why i wrote

As quoted by xeno
(ofc people would still have to meet certain requirements to join no matter if they are new or old raiders)
 
By meeting these requirements and maybe asking a few people to come on mains if possible, this problem should be able to be solved.
If you look on several people we actually got quite a few alts which is just as strong as our mains, let me give you a few examples, sif got druid/pala/lock, i got priest/pala/hunt/rogue, fred got his dk/hunt, burns got pala/mage etc. etc.

i would recommend that u still tried to setup the team ofc so maybe if we got a lack of healers, just ask people and assign whoever needs to relog today.
                        

but do remember this is only a suggestion, im not trying to force your hand by any means, i just believe this would be a matter which easily could be solved if we feel for it.
                        

We have tried bringing alts a few times before, people expect the runs to be just as fast as mains, i get tons of whispers about how slow and boring it is to carry peoples alts (those who join on mains) and if i limit the number of alts i get the same amount of whispers about being unfair that raider X can come on alt. Now without DKP i'm sure already the pace would go down tremendously so that we'd be too handicapped to ever have a smooth hc run again, which is why i mentioned we need 2 raid nights to gear new raiders. Also, i'm not sure that new raiders would be integrated into the core team if they were to play with only a couple from the core team.
                        

Hey all my turn to join the discussion now and I wanna thank everyone who took their time to involve their opinions and hope more people take their time too to solve this problem we have right now.

So after reading this wall of text and analyzing it I've come to my personal solution to this taking into matter what everyone has said.

I think that the main problem here is not the DKP system in itself, the problem is the Sunday HC raids which right now is DKP heaven. The thing is that we do have a core group where at least 90% turn up to every mythic raid and other than that we do have a few somewhat full HC geared reserves, which means that we don't actually need to go HC anymore in my opinion as we do have the amount of people we need ready to raid mythic already (including reserves). 
However as Quh is saying it's always nice to have more extras, BUT my opinion about this is that if someone REALLY wants to join us and compete for Mythic spots with our core raiders I think that these people should take their time to gear themselves up via the very very easy Group Finder system. That means that if you wanna start raiding with us you do need to put some work to get your spot. Back in the days our goal was to welcome everyone to all of our runs, but these days we are 4th ranked on the server and if we sharpen up we could make it to the podium at the end of the expansion, but to reach this goal we can not spend time boosting casuals with 700 pvp ilvl in HC just to stand a chance on Mythic loot.

To clarify my point I just want to agree with what most raiders have stated before me, that DKP and the sunday HC raids should no longer be bounded together. I think that what Yi said about using sundays to do fun runs like BRF Mythic is a nice alternative but to add to that I think that maybe we could do HFC HC every 2nd sunday and something else the other ones.

The main point is that if we are going to keep the DKP system I think that we must stop rewarding DKP in HC as we do not need it anymore according to my own opinions as stated above. 
This means that DKP is purely awarded when you are raiding Mythic with us, and in order to be raiding Mythic with us you should be almost full HC geared (which means you've taken your personal time to get ready for mythic instead of relying on 15+ other people boosting you every sunday).

I however do think EPGP / Loot Council would benefit us the most but to meet halfway to keep the DKP system that is pretty good after all we need to stop rewarding DKP in HC raids. 
As Quh has mentioned DKP system rewards attendance, so if we only reward DKP in Mythic this means we reward the people who actually join us in the important runs and stay with us wiping on the same stupid freaking reason for nights instead of rewarding the people getting pretty much boosted in HC more than the real fighters.

And other to that I think that posting a personal BiS list even with DKP would be a great idea. This might solve problems like the one Yi mentioned in his first post about the Hellrender which is BiS for DK but lower ranked for wars/paladins, where people can use their common sense and not outbid a DK for a DK BiS item if you're not a DK. This is just my own personal suggestion tho.

I do not have a solution now and here for how to distribute the HC gear to people if we stop DKP in HC though,  but I guess a traditional /roll could work with exception to a few reserved items to super core raiders still missing that 1 specific item in HC. But the HC raid will probably suffer and not be as smooth, but at this point and time , 20 weeks of us clearing HC I do not think that clearing HC is a need no more and the people who still need HC gear to get a spot should take their own time to do this as also stated earlier.

To sum things up this would mean that DKP would only be awarded on the wed, thur and monday raids where we raid Mythic. Keeping the DKP system can work but I think that we will have to stop rewarding DKP in HC for us to stand a chance on getting Archimonde some time soon.

This is my personal thoughts right now and my head is full of ideas, i might have missed quite a few and maybe explained some of them bad so please add your thought to this.
Hope that people keeping adding ideas so we can solve this asap =)
                        

True as a leader you have to account for the lack of patience which i only hear a small part of ofc unless we got wrettz along then i hear about it ALOT aswell ;)

but yeah without dkp it would prob set the pace lower from our current raiders, but i think it works as a better motivator for the new people and our current members wont feel forced to show up which might show some surplus for our progression raids.

but im allready in the MAYBE's and the Might's and i got nothing to back up this, 
but personaly if the sunday run was officially a gearing day for alts and new people i would expect the pase to be slower than current, which is why we got the Core team for the hard stuff. :)
                        

I do like burns ideas, but if your taking DKP away from heroic runs, then can we add it to progression runs too or something? Wiping for 3 hours for 40dkp is just.... meh. I mean its not bad atm cause we can still get dkp from heroic, which is I guess the point why people wanna change it.
                        

Thanks for your well written opinions burns!

I'd also like you to complete your analysis with describing how we bring players into the raid team when we have no way to let them in unless they are already perfect for a mythic team? Would it be simple to find replacements for hfc mythic when we have nobody except core people raiding with us (since we would only do mythic runs)?

If it is, then how do we do this?
If not, then how do we stay patient and bring pugs to the mythic fight (and doing /roll for loot etc) where someone is sick or have to work overtime or w/e?
                        

As quoted by Schnukumz
I do like burns ideas, but if your taking DKP away from heroic runs, then can we add it to progression runs too or something? Wiping for 3 hours for 40dkp is just.... meh. I mean its not bad atm cause we can still get dkp from heroic, which is I guess the point why people wanna change it.

I do not like this loot driven raiding mentality. I prefer if the fun will be wiping on a boss learning the hard way where you get the feeling of accomplishment in the end when you kill it for the first time. If you just want loot, just buy tokens, sell, and buy loot on AH. I wish wow had no loot in raiding, gearing could have been left outside to do before joining raids, in fungeons for example.
                        

Yo, I really think that we should stick with DKP. The reason is that I used RClootcouncil on my other guild and I think that it was a bit unfair because they proiritized the ones that they liked and also that it wouldn't work because it's almost the same thing as dkp except that the leader choose who to give it to and not the raider that chooses what to spend their "currency" on. So it's more like a simple DKP. And if more than 1 wanted it either they gave it to them directly or they rolled for it (Which I liked) and also people can't get salty because they don't get their item that they want or because someone is bidding over another when it's not their bis item.  You choose what to spend it on and you earn it in a fair way. We should stick to DkP. And we should make it like if you save it up for a long time you should have to spend it one something, eventhough it might seem a bit two faced because I said that you choose what to spend it on and there for you should also be able to save it for how long you want too. But to have a max amount if DKP also seems more fair and it would work out better because some people so they can't save up for a very long time just to annoy people/take items that aren't BiS.